The secret sauce of standout

We discuss the culmination of Alkamee's 50 years working in the white hot heat of brands around the world. Then and now, reminiscing on our journey and uncovering what it takes to create a brand identity that breaks the spell of the status quo and wins the hearts and minds of your audience. 

Transcript

Nik Dillon: 0:07

Hello everyone, Nik here, founder and director of Alkamee, you're listening to the Make some Noise podcast, the show all about brands and how they can make the world a better place with me is my co host, Adam.

Adam Gallacher: 0:21

Hey, guys, this episode, we're going to specifically focus in on brand identity. Now, as part of our overall podcast trajectory, we want to talk about branding. It's all of its for us. But this episode, I think, it would be really good if we could have a chat about the part that everyone seats and things that that you know, which is actually the visual part the identity, Nik, I wouldn't mind going back in time a little bit if you don't mind, not the distant past, but just to your own trajectory. You're working in brand identity a while. And I think we like to call you an expert on the subject. Where did your brand identity professional journey start?

Nik Dillon: 1:05

Telling my age now? I am. I think I have about 27 years experience at this point. So yeah, you'd like to think I haven't been doing it. Since you're three. Some know how, yeah, well, it all started I went to college, the usual journey ncid had at the time back when I graduated in 1994. There was actually no work here in design. So the only job you could get was actually going to a printers. didn't spend four years in college to do that. So I headed over to London, where I learned I suppose my craft there. From there came back to Ireland, and on to Australia. So we've, I've worked in Ireland, the UK, in Australia, where the passion for identity work came? Any agency can do a lot of generic work like brochures, leaflets, advertising. But for me, I think the true challenge always was creating a brilliant branded entity. And where did you even start? So I think I was always curious to know, how would you pull together such a big identity. And I think where it really came to fruition for me was when I was in Australia, working for a crowd called Design Works at the time, and we had the chance to rebrand a Credit Union, they were called MECU. So I think it stood for Members and Education Credit Union at the time, having scribbled down, you know, we always kind of brainstorm whatever a visual identity might look like. And, you know, looking at symbols and letter forms and all of that. I came up with the idea of what about MECU, and looking at Me and U like a Credit Union is all about relationships. It's about people helping people, it's a cooperation of its members working together, they own the credit union. For me, there was a beauty and a trick, and I love a bit of wit in design. So I suppose the beauty was Me and You, I could see me and you and how could we work that into MECU, so we change the C into an ampersand, you know, short for and it's funny, I had a lot of experience at that point. But it's only just dawned on me then having gone to the other side of the world that we had just created. And we would have done a lot of research into the credit union at the time under strategy and but it was bringing all that thinking and insight and research and all the complexities that the credit union wanted to solve and reach new audiences. And all of those weird and wonderful things, taking all that complexities and bringing a simple mark for the world to see that represented this credit union and their ambitions going forward. And we brought together a lovely visual language really bright colours. And it wasn't just in the market itself. It was throughout the visual language and imagery for the advertising campaign. We did a big shoot, and we had two twins, and they were remembered distinctly they were two redheads. It was all about that me and you the person, personable touch, their relationships. And we just brought that out throughout all the graphics throughout so imagery, colours, and to really reinforce that personable approach and that the relationship building and people helping people.

Adam Gallacher: 4:21

That's what you term visual languages its where, because I think when people think brand identity, they were all kind of queued in to think of the logo mark. But I think what you're talking about there is how you've crafted this mark based on your idea that it's about people together, me and you, which is a lovely idea. But then you've expanded it out into what you've termed their visual language.

Nik Dillon: 4:46

Yeah, I think there's a big misconception out there. A logo is a brand or a brand is a logo. What's a branded entity anyway, we would always say a logo is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to your brand. It's that one thing people can see their brand identity is the larger piece. So when we say larger piece, we it's all of those touch points that your logo might sit on. So for example, all the collateral so brochures of advertising, livery buildings, but an identity system would be your colours, your tone of voice, your graphics, your imagery, how do you represent your staff as a business? All of those things.

Adam Gallacher: 5:27

So when you're talking there about the two twins that you use, that is part of that visual language, that part bringing that idea of people coming together? Very, very, a very visual way of representing that idea.

Nik Dillon: 5:41

Yeah, exactly. It's so and so the imagery, so we would have done a photo shoot, so all them, like, it's the easiest thing in the world to go, Okay, let's look up a stock library and grab a whole load of images. But then isn't that what everyone else is doing. So a great brand needs to be distinct for impactful, unique stands out on its own truly represents you as an organisation. So every organisation has some little bit of magic underneath the skin, which we love to delve into. In this case, it was the imagery. So the twins brought together that whole idea of personable and me and you and relationships and to working hand in hand. So it's not just enough to say that you're personable or the all of these things, it's the mark, it's the imagery, every little detail, all brought together, keep reinforcing that message and every which way possible, subconsciously, you're going to engage with people in different more meaningful ways.

Adam Gallacher: 6:38

Yeah, so that's a really good example of how you've got an idea. Idea manifests itself in the logo, the, you know, the core identity piece, and it's about how it's named, you've taken those, you know, that little inside there, me and you, and you've kept all the intrinsic elements that were acquired, but then added a little bit of magic, shall we say? Yeah. And then you brought that to life, too. So for you that was, shall we say, kind of a light bulb moment? Would that be? Right?

Nik Dillon: 7:05

Yeah, definitely. And I think up until that stage, you know, I was always kind of in roles and job, like, we did a lot of brand communications in the various agencies I worked in, in the past, but this was the first big challenge. And we really, I believe, cracked, and I think up until then I was like, God, I love what I do. And I get paid for it too, like creating big opportunities out of that challenge, and bringing the whole thing together, you're influencing people, you're changing, behaviour inspiring, you're exciting. You're doing all of those weird, wonderful things. Whereas I would have thought, even at the time, like a brochure, I suppose any agency could do a nice brochure. In other words, to really crack an identity that then became multi award winning was pretty good.

Adam Gallacher: 7:52

Okay, so that's the Genesis really, I suppose if you're all of these elements combine to create this golden moment. What do you do with it then do I mean, because like, a lot of agencies are kind of doing a little bit of this to do a little bit of that. But you've become a brand expert . How did you? How did you keep that momentum going?

Nik Dillon: 8:12

We were in Australia for a couple of years. So we did that. And then the real dream was to come back to Ireland to set up an agency that specialised in strategic thinking and identity, because at the time, I felt that not a lot of agencies here, where we're doing that we opted to leverage our experience really was unequalled at the time. So placing that complete focus on building brand communications, from strategic platforms, insightful thinking, to create flexible results.

Adam Gallacher: 8:43

If we were to simplify that down by basically, what you're talking about there is ideas that are insights based on what what a business or organization's true motivation is that you're then bringing to life visually. And through language and all these other things. You're bringing it all together are these ingredients that people can then identify as, like what that what that is,

Nik Dillon: 9:06

yeah, yeah, I think all the agencies we had worked in at the time either really excelled in creating really good, insightful thinking, and were very business minded and knew how to solve business results, but couldn't bring that to light couldn't marry the two successfully. I was in other agencies that did brilliant, creative, but they were very subjective. They weren't marrying the business goals or a vision. So the agency was created to bring the two together. And I honestly do still believe that that's our winning formula. You know, you have great market research, insightful thinking and great creative, and you're on to a winner that works for us each and every time and I think we love a challenge. And it's when you crack that challenge or when you reach new audiences or when you grow a business or you help save lives through creating a great identity for charity? That's for us. It's not about the money. It's not that's not the why we get about bed in the morning. It's it's those real rich tangible results.

Adam Gallacher: 10:12

Yeah. A friend of mine said about identity that in every identity that he was challenged to work on, he always looked for the gift in the job. Yeah, I think to bring it back to that one MECU the gift and the job was Me and You given that, I think that that kind of wit, that you know, that humanity, I think that people, you know, it resonates becomes timeless, doesn't it? Yeah, identity.

Nik Dillon: 10:38

I think realising the brand's True Potential and bring it to life as what we do best. I suppose that's the simplest way we can put it. Yeah, it's it's that it's all very well to have acres of research at the start of an identity or rebrand. And then you can Oh, god, what do we do with all this? But it's really that real trick uncover? What's that one thing that makes that brand go, what makes that business tick? It's this is the one unique component.

Adam Gallacher: 11:06

I think that's an interesting kind of journey to have arrived on because you've obviously worked in places like London, where you know, design and identity is kind of King. And you have those classic identities that are around you and me a lot of the time, we're surrounded by great identities and things like that great touch points. And memory triggers, as you said earlier, that we absorb all the time, but probably aren't cognizant of how they're working and how that they work so well. And why do some identities, you know, they're around for 50, 60, 70, 80 years longer? Why are they still working so resonant while others still haven't found their thing? And I think is that thing that there's an idea that transcends time, there is an idea that motivating connects and communicate and strikes to the heart of it. And I think that's what you were talking about there. And then when it communicated as simply as possible, it's hard to beat.

Nik Dillon: 12:02

And I suppose what that was one of the reasons I went over to London back in the day was some of these was a real, wild cultural shock and all the identities I admired from afar, were now within reach. You know, you've got the London Underground, you get the V&A, and I used to just get on a tube just to see that mark, and you know, how it's represented the V&A, that beautiful, it's still one of my favourite marks of all time, you know, that ampersand and just beautifully crafted. And maybe that was in the back of my mind when we created the MECU. And working on the ampersand there. But yeah, it's these beautifully timeless crafted, and I just numerous other examples, you've got the Shell brandmark. And it's only evolves marginally over time. So it's things like that. And I think some change like that in a mark is, I suppose, really well crafted. But also you need to make incremental change, little change that the consumer doesn't particularly notice so to improve or to improve legibility, or those kinds of issues, incremental change to care for them. Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Gallacher: 13:09

I mean, I think that's the thing that's really interesting, people are looking at, like London Underground. And don't consider that at some stage. Somebody came up with that. And it's so simple, it does so many things, or people aren't even aware that at times, it says Underground all the time, says Bakerloo, and it's all effortless. That's what a great idea is that it's literally the shape of a tunnel, with with the direction going across the middle of it, you marry that with those distinctive colours, which they've tweaked through time, the colours they use today. I think that's what you mean, the fact that it has its own font, people don't even aren't even aware that it has its own font. All those little details come together. And anytime you see that mark, it makes you think of that warm, damp environment. That is the tube. And I think as you say, the V&A has this beautiful combination of this classic yet it's also got this little bit of rebellion at the heart of it, this little kind of chopping off that's at the heart of which I think is very interesting. So it's really interesting to start to think about that. There may be some of these subconscious influences in back played a part.

Nik Dillon: 14:11

Yeah, definitely

Adam Gallacher: 14:12

I think is that thinking that underlies it all that we're all subconsciously exposed to all the time. And I think that's the great thing about brand identity, subconsciously, it imparts so much meaning that people aren't aware of, but when you start to unpick it start to see behind it, you go, what that's actually the structure that makes all this work. And I think that's absolutely fascinating, really,

Nik Dillon: 14:34

before as Alkamee, we started creating brands ourselves, I would have been classed as a conceptual designer. So I was always kind of I liked concepts I liked coming up with ideas I liked, given that Smile in the Mind of that book, smile at the mind. It's that little bit of wit when you see a mark or that's really clever, that kind of thing. And I suppose, going through all the agencies and working in different continents, it's a different journey, and I Suppose you're bringing all that fruit to bear now, and you're still injecting some of those thinking that you've learned years ago, into what you're doing today. That's where as how we bring a difference to branded identity work. So what about you, Adam?

Adam Gallacher: 15:14

So I think I've citedquite a few times as a kid, I was quite taken with the British Rail logo, I was also taken with the RAF roundel, those circles that you see on the aircraft, likes of the Spitfire and all that always love that. But I never equated those with design or logo design or something that you'd want to do for a living, I would doodle these things, but I would never equate it, say with the roundel with the actual aircraft that were there. But that was a touch point to it. And then as you grow older, I use it remember, used to draw all the heavy metal band logos, they all had very distinctive identity, I think I could still draw you an Iron Maiden one from from memory. But when I became a designer, I think I always wanted to do identity, but I just didn't know how. And even in a working environment. I think as you said there earlier, a lot of times, when you work in an agency, you find yourself working on a multitude of things. And every once in a while and identity will come around, you are asked to work. But I never felt like I had the tools to actually know how to do it. And I was immensely frustrated by this. I didn't feel that I understood it that I understood all the mechanisms. I didn't feel I understood anything at all to create the great identity. I wanted to be able to create marks of timeless quality, had no clue. And then went to Australia and I joined an agency who specialised in identity. I thought if I'm going to learn this, I have to go somewhere where this is what they do. So I joined a company called Cato. I think in that time, learn more about what I wanted than I could have done. I've spent 10 years in college or 20 years anywhere else. But I think it's as much about who you work with. So the kind of the calibre of designer you worked with.

Nik Dillon: 17:04

So what work, do you think that made a real difference? While you're there?

Adam Gallacher: 17:09

Well, what attracted me to Cato was that they were working on the big brands, they're working on the likes of Qantas. So you're working on the big brands from the get go, they landed, Benq was the world's largest electronics client. And the task was don't change the name, but, or the identity, work on everything around it was a multimillion dollar account. And there was three of us put on it two very senior designers. And me, it was the only time I'd seen these two senior designers worried. I'd never they were very unflappable and became clear why you were worried it was huge. I think we worked out of 66,000 pieces that need to be rebranded.

Nik Dillon: 17:47

That's That's some some amount of collateral. So how did you cope with the deadlines at the time? Just work through the night, or?

Adam Gallacher: 17:55

Initially Yes, there was a ferocious amount had to be done in a very short space of time. For the two senior designers are absolutely panicking about the deadlines. And as I said, they were so senior to see them panic was so the first week was absolute Carnage, I think, until we sat down with this two senior creative directors to break it out what was going on. And you're right, the whole thing here was working to production deadlines, tradeshow deadlines, working to Chinese production deadlines, we broke it all down. And it's that classic phrase, how do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. So we broke it down to the bits that needed to be eaten. And then we began to get through that. We were tasked then with tasking the other designers in the agency, we had 28 designers, so we broke everything down. So for the next nine months, we worked through everything, and we hit every deadline. So we got there. In the end, I think the learnings from that have stood me ever since. So yeah, it was a big life lesson. I think it's something that still stands to me in terms of the crafted elements and things like that we learned along the way, how you apply something out and all those multiple touch points. So methodologies and ways we worked are actually the kinds of things that are required. Now, to make sure a logo works at a small scale. Yeah, make sure it can work on all these different materials to make sure that if you see only half of it, you still recognise it to make sure that it works in black and white as well as multiple colours. And I think what you're seeing now is you're seeing a lot of brands really have to recalibrate themselves in that same way. In a digital digital world. Yeah, yeah. When we talk about icebergs that was an iceberg.

Nik Dillon: 19:33

What do you mean what do we mean by an iceberg?

Adam Gallacher: 19:36

when you see this one little piece in your head? all this other stuff starts to unfold you know that all this other stuff like unfolds like a butterfly. And the iceberg is really all that other stuff? Yeah, it's when I talked about the tube I told you about the smell is but the lights but sounded that

Nik Dillon: 19:56

experience, isn't it?

Adam Gallacher: 19:57

Yes, it is. So it is Since in brand what you're trying to do is construct as many of those experiences as possible. You know, do you remember years ago Intel, used to have that doo doo doo doo? Yeah, little sound thing. Yeah, that's part of their brand. I think when we talk about iceberg, it's the idea that you talked about earlier, the conceptual side of things, which is you're the absolute driver behind everything. It's the inside who you try reach.

Nik Dillon: 20:21

Right at the bottom of the iceberg, isn't it?

Adam Gallacher: 20:23

Yeah, it's your idea. And an idea on its own, should be timeless in itself. You notice the thing that drives it? And then it's how that idea manifests itself through everything from the feel and touch the sensory, all those pieces, all the things I had to learn with that Benq job how to how does it look on a building? How does it look in a showroom? How does it look on a product? How does it look on a screen? How does it look in motion? It's all of those pieces that come together. And I think you said a phrase that I really, you know, I love memory trigger there earlier, memory trigger. I really love this because again, I think that's what a great brand speaks to. So when you are again talking about the V&A, when you think of when you see that logo, it fires off that building, doesn't it? What we're saying wherever the tube, it ignites those announcements that its the tube. When you see that mark, if you're a Nike, that little bit of the Swoosh, yeah, that in the can depending on what you're into it can ignite Messi can ignite trainers that can ignite stores, or can I tracksuits, just do it, it ignites all those things, you had all those associations that they built up through time, and I think that's the brilliance pardon me of a memory trigger? that's what that's what you're trying to actually construct?

Nik Dillon: 21:36

Yeah. Well, that's it. And at the end of the day, you kind of going. Why do you need to be different? Well, if it's for some obvious reasons, obviously, you want to stand out. You want to excite, inspire, influence, persuade. If you're a business and you want to stand out, it's for all of those reasons.

Adam Gallacher: 21:54

There's a lot here in this first episode, on brand identity, and what it's about, I think, is a good intro to apply. We're trying to, I suppose give people flavour. We always say identity is more than a logo. And we're always kind of reiterating that. I think it'd be really good in the next episode, if we could talk about the process to creating that. Give me an example, recent example of an identity that you've worked on as Alkamee now. What were the steps on the way? And what do you think you've achieved? What What can we learn from that kind of thing,

Nik Dillon: 22:28

the one that springs to mind without even having to think about it is Savvi Credit Union both loved working on that. It was Saint Patricks Credit Union. And as a credit union. I've credit unions have come into the fore much more in recent times. But even when we're rebranding Savvi, I think was about three years ago now. Nobody really understood what a credit union was, you know, there was still that old fashioned perception by credit union. And isn't that something that you had your 20 quid communion money still in which was a really awful misconception about the our whole task was to how do we rebrand a credit union, it was actually six credit unions coming together. And there were significant big ones or Irish Independent ESB, Irish Times. So there were a lot coming together. But the vision of the credit union was really attract Youngblood. So the credit union could survive, thrive, take on the banks, we wanted to inspire a new way of Irish banking. So it was really to go How do we attract new younger audiences, which is going to be the future of the credit union? How do we change the perception old fashioned thinking in our perception of what a credit union is? And can be? How do we bring all of that together? How do we keep 22,000 members? And how do we unite them all? under one? Master brand?

Adam Gallacher: 23:47

Easy peasy?

Nik Dillon: 23:48

Totally. Yeah. You know, which so our whole thing from the get go is the collaborative approach. We used to sit around a table every couple of weeks, and there was PR agency, there was marketing team, there's ourselves there was the credit union architecture. Yeah. So the whole idea for us as the brand agency was, how do we put all that collaborative thinking together, but created an immersive, seamless experience. We didn't want the architects to go off and create a fabulous new flagship store and have the logo tacked on the side of the building. Yes, we wanted our brand to be fully immersive, that it was tactile, that you could see it, touch it, feel it here. It wasn't just like a graphic exercise. What we loved about it as well is that community and I suppose back to the MECU project I worked on in Australia, worldwide, a little bit of that thinking of the personable approach.

Adam Gallacher: 24:42

So just to kind of probe a little bit here specifically about the identity What do you feel with it elements that actually told that story that you're saying real world how did you and the

Nik Dillon: 24:54

You mean, the debt the name and the density itself? That memory trigger?

Adam Gallacher: 24:57

Yeah, on the name of the identity and like, I mean, We're talking about here I suppose I you know, this idea of people helping people. Alright, well, when we're talking about this visual language, what we did that manifest itself?

Nik Dillon: 25:09

Well, the first thing we did was tackle the name so the name itself was St. Patrick's credit union limited, big long name. So we're going to cover naming in a different episode, but savvy there was a gap in the market for a budegtry role and there was a gap in the market for more I suppose a feminine approach. So the symbol itself is kind of you can see a love heart within there so you can see that care and coming together. Savviin is taken from the word savvy as in S A V V Y, we spell do SAVVI for distinction for ownability, and all those kinds of things. But it's reflects a wise and clever choice within the market, it was a completely different naming convention to everybody else, everybody else was using acronyms or place names, or all of those kinds of things. So Savvi stood out from a naming perspective, from a visual perspective, we looked at their competitors colours at the time, and blue was very common. It was, you know, that dull institutionalised kind of navy blue, we wanted to fresh thinking, fresh colours, for standout for impact, combined colour palette, we created a beautiful illustration kind of system that ran through, and that I think was really distinctive in its own right, nobody else was particularly using an illustration in that sector. So all of these things combined, make up the Savvi brand identity helping the credit union to move into bigger markets, increasing their audience, increasing their loan book. So it's all of those things are very high level strategic things, but done in a way that impacts everybody's daily lives. And it really see the brand out there

Adam Gallacher: 26:46

you're, you're creating an easier entry point to understand why credit union is, yeah, you're creating something that's more exciting for younger audiences to connect with,

Nik Dillon: 26:55

and also bring to life all that thinking, and how do we inspire a new way of banking in Ireland and give people people were looking for an alternative to banks. So Savvi reflects a wise and clever choice that does just that.

Adam Gallacher: 27:08

And now that you've had the time to reflect upon that. Do you think that we're always saying that brand is a really, powerful tool for business? I think Savvi is a great case in point. I'm obviously a little bit biassed, but what what's your opinion on? Do you think that it delivered on that?

Nik Dillon: 27:24

Yeah, completely, as I said, for all those reasons, but also their loan book grew by 12%. In the first year, also the name change, we had to go to the Convention Centre, and help the team influence and persuade buy in from the members. So I think it was 200 people on the night representing the 22,000 members going in, I think by 87%, first name change in 54 years, we made history that night alone. So I think no brand can stand still, they all have to keep moving all have to keep evolving, Savvi are going great guns, but every advertisement campaign needs to be just a little bit better than the last one. We can't stand today and have to keep moving, have to keep doing things a little bit different. not wait for your competitors to do it first.

Adam Gallacher: 28:12

Well, that's great. I think that's a great introductory episode, and kind of an introduction to brand identity, I hope has provided people live with an insight into the greater potential of brand. And I always feel that brand is untapped potential for business. So often, you know, like, like, when you look at the top 100 businesses in the world, they usually are great brands as well. And I'm often reminded that Coca Cola as a business is valued multiples beyond its actual infrastructure, like multiples beyond the factories if all its factories burnt down tomorrow, Coca Cola would still have a business. But if its brand became irreparably damaged, it will go out of business. And I think that's a great indication of the power of brand, and a great indication of why it's a great space to work in. And why it's so interesting. I always think it's interesting that there's so many subconscious elements that it can ignite and trigger off. And that's a great space to be working. I think that's a great way to wrap up Episode One, Episode Two, what I'd really like us to delve into is the actual process, how do you create a brand? What are the intrinsic or brand identity elements that you would create? They create a brand identity? Why do you create them? And how do you nurse people through that journey? What's their power and potential? How do you use them and not abuse them? So I think that'll be Episode Two.

Nik Dillon: 29:34

Yeah, we'll delve a little bit more in depth to the process and the individual parts and make up the whole.

Adam Gallacher: 29:41

Okay, so that's all for me, Adam.

Nik Dillon: 29:45

Its goodbye from him. Thanks, guys. Keep listening.

Adam Gallacher: 29:48

Cheers.